1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,060 One of the most puzzling and controversial UFO sightings in U.S. history occurred nearly 2 00:00:06,060 --> 00:00:09,440 27 years ago in Kecksburg, Pennsylvania. 3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:13,120 To this day, many people who have studied this sighting believe there is a continuing 4 00:00:13,120 --> 00:00:17,440 government cover-up of what really happened in 1965. 5 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:21,920 As I discovered on my trip to Kecksburg, some believe the UFO was a meteor, others that it 6 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:28,480 was an alien spacecraft, and still others that it was all an elaborate hoax. 7 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:33,240 It used to be just like a lot of other small villages in western Pennsylvania. 8 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:38,480 But in 1965, Kecksburg lost its anonymity when it became one of the world's most famous 9 00:00:38,480 --> 00:00:41,400 UFO landing sites. 10 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,120 I happened to look up in the sky and I seen this red farball. 11 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,240 It sure wasn't a meteor, because I've seen them fall before. 12 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:51,320 I've never seen any of them with blue lights on. 13 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,120 And it looked like it made a turn and it came back again. 14 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:59,200 And when it came back, it seemed like it went down. 15 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:06,200 It was December 9th, 1965, a night that many townspeople will never forget. 16 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:10,920 I got my flashlight and I started down through the woods up to where it was at. 17 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:16,440 There was no wings, there was no tail section, there was no motors, there was no windows, 18 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:17,440 there was no doors. 19 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:19,920 There was big enough for a grown person to stand up in. 20 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,360 It had like Egyptian writing, like backwards writing on it. 21 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,560 Stars and circles and dashes and lines and things like that. 22 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:28,760 It looked like an acorn. 23 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:29,840 It was really weird. 24 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,560 Some claim the UFO wasn't the only thing to arrive that night. 25 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:38,000 It wasn't too much longer down through the woods come two gentlemen. 26 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:43,360 The one gentleman, very ramrod straight, very authoritative voice, crew cut hair. 27 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,240 I mean, he just wreaked a military. 28 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,160 He looked at the object and he looked at us and he says, alright, this is not a restricted 29 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:50,160 area. 30 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:51,560 These were all ordered out of here. 31 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:57,040 Some military people come to the house and just said they'd like to use the phone. 32 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,960 They sort of took the house over and start talking among ourselves. 33 00:01:59,960 --> 00:02:02,480 What's going on? 34 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:06,400 About that time up through on the road comes a big flatbed truck in the flatbed went down 35 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:11,080 and empty and they come back out with something on the back of it covered up about the size 36 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:12,320 of a Volkswagen. 37 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:13,560 That truck was hell bent for leather. 38 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,320 And if you walked out on that road, you'd have still been there. 39 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:18,480 They'd have scraped you up with a putty knife. 40 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,560 They weren't stopping for anything or anybody. 41 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,000 And that began the real mystery of this whole thing. 42 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:29,920 Twenty seven years later, what happened down there in that woods surrounded by fields, 43 00:02:29,920 --> 00:02:34,640 if anything happened down there at all, is still a matter of bitter controversy. 44 00:02:34,640 --> 00:02:36,760 You've got this town split into two groups. 45 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:38,880 You got the believers and the nonbelievers. 46 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:43,120 There's been some friendship lost and it's foolish as far as I'm concerned. 47 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:49,160 I have a brother-in-law that he hadn't spoke to me for two years and said that I lied about 48 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,280 everything that I never lied about a thing. 49 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:55,560 You got neighbors and neighbors that have known each other all their life. 50 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:59,640 Now they don't want to talk cause one believes it and one don't believe it. 51 00:02:59,640 --> 00:03:04,440 Just as the town is divided, so too are experts who have researched what really happened in 52 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,160 Kecksburg. 53 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,520 Planetary expert Robert Young believes that some citizens may have perpetrated a hoax. 54 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:15,120 He claims the UFO was merely a meteor known to have passed over Ontario and several northern 55 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,320 states that evening. 56 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:22,640 Probably all of the accounts can be explained by people having looked toward and seeing 57 00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:24,240 the Ontario meteor. 58 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:29,160 How about the accounts though of the military that turned out in large numbers, kept people 59 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:33,080 away from going down there, truck that went down into the area and came out. 60 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,000 You got eyewitnesses that say, this happened. 61 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,600 I understand. 62 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:45,320 I have written signed eyewitness accounts from 61 local people who say that that did 63 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:46,320 not. 64 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,440 There was nothing crashed here, it was recovered, there was no military occupant. 65 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,240 A lot of people probably think you're the government. 66 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:52,960 Well sure, yeah, but I'm not. 67 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,920 I don't know how some people can say that nothing ever happened when there was so many 68 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,680 people that saw things that night. 69 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:01,160 Something had to happen. 70 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:05,840 I know what I saw and I'm not going to deny it. 71 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:10,720 They can tell me I'm lying but I know that I've seen the military in my house that night. 72 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:18,120 The Department of Information Act states there was 212 military personnel here that 73 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:19,920 night. 74 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:24,200 Sightings attempted to speak with the Kexburg residents who deny anything extraterrestrial 75 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,200 ever happened here, but they all refused our invitation to talk. 76 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:32,200 Even the landowner whose property was the alleged crash site remains silent. 77 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:37,280 I think the government bought them off or threatened them with something that got them 78 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:38,600 scared half to wits. 79 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:43,200 Ironically, their refusal to talk has only deepened the controversy. 80 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,400 UFO researcher Stan Gorton heard about the Kexburg incident on the radio. 81 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,480 The night had allegedly happened in 1965. 82 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,520 He's been investigating the sighting ever since. 83 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:58,680 So much of what we know about the case now, we've learned since about 1987 with the fact 84 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:03,400 that now we have at least four different eyewitnesses who apparently saw the object on the ground 85 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:04,400 at Kexburg. 86 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:08,440 The fact that there are dozens of people independent of each other who don't even know each other 87 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,840 yet who have given us detailed information about what they experienced and saw that night 88 00:05:12,840 --> 00:05:16,360 and they're giving us confirming information that has not been published yet. 89 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:20,360 The skeptics, and these include the people who own the land and some very substantial 90 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:25,000 citizens of Kexburg, think that this whole thing is loony. 91 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,520 Why do they feel so strongly the other way? 92 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,840 Could be that some of these people were in the wrong places at that time. 93 00:05:30,840 --> 00:05:33,400 They were in a position where they didn't see what was going on. 94 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:37,400 And if you see the geography of the area and where the majority of people were that night, 95 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:42,360 they could not have seen the military activity that was happening on the land on the other 96 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:43,800 side of the area down there. 97 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:49,640 Do you have any hard evidence at all that what went down in the woods near Kexburg was 98 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,360 something other than a meteor or was anything at all? 99 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:53,480 Unfortunately not. 100 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,920 As in so many of these cases, you have to go by the eyewitness accounts. 101 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:01,080 And in this case, the eyewitness accounts are very, very strong. 102 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,240 And again, unfortunately, we don't have that type of information. 103 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:09,040 If this was the case, whether it be a space probe or in other UFO cases, sure, if we had 104 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,040 the physical hardware, the mystery would be over. 105 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:12,040 What do you think it is? 106 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:13,480 What do I think it is? 107 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:19,080 At this point, and again, this is not conclusive, at this point, the weight of evidence would 108 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:23,440 point in the direction that this may have been a Soviet space probe. 109 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:28,880 If the object were proven to be a Soviet space probe, then many questions would be answered. 110 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:33,440 If a Soviet device landed in Kexburg, the government would have been required by international 111 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:38,720 treaty to recover and return immediately any space debris to the country of origin. 112 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:43,720 But retired Army Sergeant Clifford Stone doesn't believe the Soviet probe theory. 113 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:49,920 If this was of Soviet origin in 1965, the State Department would have released documentation 114 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,440 to me under their Moondust files. 115 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:56,120 To date, none of that information has been forth. 116 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:01,160 Clifford Stone collects government documents about space debris recovery operations like 117 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,240 Project Moondust and Project Blue Fly. 118 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:09,720 He began his investigations in 1965 when, as an Army Sergeant, he witnessed a top-secret 119 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:14,440 delivery to Lockborn Air Force Base about 200 miles from Kexburg. 120 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:20,000 I noticed that on the back of the vehicle, it had something that was covered by a tarp. 121 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,080 It was about 10 to 12 foot at the base, 12 foot tall. 122 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:25,920 It looked like a chocolate drop. 123 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:32,920 When my friend told me that every question I ever had about UFOs was under that canvas, 124 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:36,560 I was mystified. 125 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:41,080 Since that time, Stone has repeatedly attempted to obtain information from the government 126 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:42,880 regarding that object. 127 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,880 Each time the government's response has been the same. 128 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:49,760 They have taken the stance by direction of the President of the United States. 129 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:55,080 We may neither confirm nor deny the existence or non-existence of any information that all 130 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,160 involve the recovery of unknowns. 131 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,000 Kexburg remains a town divided. 132 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:05,200 The only thing on which believers and non-believers can agree is that all they want to know once 133 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:10,120 and for all is what really happened on December 9th, 1965. 134 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:11,480 What would you like to see happen next? 135 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:15,600 It's time after 27 years that the public has to write to know the true facts regardless 136 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,120 of what the object was and what really occurred. 137 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:23,400 Something came down from numerous eyewitness accounts to a lot of military activity into 138 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:24,400 this small village. 139 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:30,000 Then an object was located, that it was recovered, it was transported away for study. 140 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:35,800 What was the object and why after 27 years having there revealed what really was found? 141 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:40,640 Joining us now from Houston is space flight engineer and author James Oberg, who has studied 142 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:47,120 the reported sighting in Kexburg and has his own theory about what landed there in 1965. 143 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:53,000 Mr. Oberg, first of all, do you believe that something crashed in Kexburg in 1965? 144 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,120 Was it a UFO? 145 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,760 If it's anything, it might be something a lot more earth-like. 146 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,960 It might be a spacecraft from Russia and not from Mars. 147 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:06,980 It turns out we do know that a Russian probe fell back to Earth that day and it was a special 148 00:09:06,980 --> 00:09:07,980 kind of probe. 149 00:09:07,980 --> 00:09:09,960 It was one of their probes to the planet Venus. 150 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,680 It failed, was trapped in Earth orbit and eventually fell out of orbit. 151 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:17,920 What might have been on that Russian space probe that the U.S. would have been so interested 152 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:18,920 in? 153 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:21,600 Oh, the most important thing about the probe would be the heat shield. 154 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,640 How thick it was, what material was made out of, how heavy it was. 155 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:30,320 Once we knew that, we could then analyze how big their warheads would be in their ICBMs. 156 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,240 The same kind of material was used there. 157 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,520 Also, their most advanced electronics would be in that probe. 158 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,320 Their most heat-resistant kinds of materials. 159 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:42,080 The very best of their entire military industrial complex technology. 160 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,800 It would have been a treasure trove in terms of the Russian space and missile technology. 161 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:51,880 Do you think we will ever know with certainty what really happened in Kecksburg? 162 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,960 Well I guess the dream is that someone will go forward with an official government report. 163 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,360 It might exist, it might not. 164 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:03,260 Twenty, thirty, forty years ago, people's memories, as you know, tend to keep changing 165 00:10:03,260 --> 00:10:05,880 and growing as the stories get told and retold. 166 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,840 I think there's lots of stories in UFO folklore that will never really know what happened 167 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:12,340 behind them. 168 00:10:12,340 --> 00:10:13,840 That's the fascination. 169 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:15,560 James Oberg, thank you very much for joining us.